December 14, 2015
The Goofy roller coaster
This entry was posted on Monday, December 14th, 2015 at 9:54 pm and posted in control, metaphor for. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
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Welcome to MONKEYTRAPS.
This is a blog about the oldest human addiction: control.
It’s co-authored by Steve, a therapist who specializes in control issues, and Bert, his control-addicted inner monkey.
(Bert is a metaphor. Steve’s mostly real.)
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BERT’S IN THERAPY. To listen in, click on his nose.
December 15th, 2015 at 8:56 am
OK. Point taken. But what of the so called Narcissist? Distilled from what I have read and learned there is always help; support groups, 12 step and lots of literature, etc. for codependents.
What about the narcissist? How about some empathy for them? They need to wake up too.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:44 am
Agreed. But (a) this was a therapy group for codependents, who (b) tend to be quicker to admit their need for help than narcissists are.
In my experience, narcissists are more likely (as illustrated in the post) to blame other people for their problems and pain.
So accepting responsibility — i.e., that they are narcissistic — is the first challenge they face in getting help.
Once they do, though, both the waking up and the empathy can begin.
December 23rd, 2015 at 12:17 pm
Encouraging. Thanks.
What’s discouraging is the lack of content available for a narcissist. Just go to the web, YouTube, a bookstore, 12 step and it’s all about codependency.
Something is out of balance here.
December 23rd, 2015 at 12:40 pm
I see it differently. Codependency and narcissism aren’t opposites, but different symptoms of the same pathology — the belief that safety and happiness can be achieved by controlling others. (See my Monkeytraps post “One root” for a fuller explanation.*) Second, since all addicts are narcissistic — self-preoccupied to the extent that they are unable to create and maintain healthy relationships — a narcissist looking for help can find it in the extensive literature on addictions. But you’re right, there aren’t many good books for the general public that address pathological narcissism directly. The best one I know is Alexander Lowen’s NARCISSISM: DENIAL OF THE TRUE SELF (Collier, 1985).
*You can read “One root” here: http://wp.me/pUxjX-3du
December 23rd, 2015 at 2:21 pm
Thanks. Happy holidays.
December 15th, 2015 at 2:16 pm
Is this Detached Involvement? I have been learning this for a year or so. It is hard to do as a parent to 3 grown children in their 20’s. I see that I’ve been ‘desperate/co-dependent/controlling’ with them. I recently had someone show me (bear with me as i try to illustrate this) hands on what I have been doing.
2 people standing up, face-to-face put their arms out in front of them, palms/hands touching and push against one-another with all their might. Then the one person simply detaches, lets go and the other person comes straight towards you all because you let go.
I will never forget that lesson! Let’s me know that in order to receive what I want with my children (them talking to me/visiting me more) I will need to change my behavior, detach and get off the Goofy coaster with them.
December 15th, 2015 at 3:23 pm
I think so, if I understand the metaphor.
It seems to suggest that when you push against (= try to control) someone they will push back, but when you stop pushing (= detach) they’re then free to move towards you.
This illustrates what I call the Second Paradox of control: “The more you try to control people, the more you force them to control you back.”
(You can read a post about the Second Paradox here: )
But this post was about narcissism, which complicates things. Often codependents try to control narcissists by pleasing, appeasing or helping them. Narcissists like this, and don’t want it to stop. So when the codependent detaches, the narcissist is less likely to “move towards them” in a positive way than to get disappointed, frustrated and angry. Which is why it’s so tempting to keep riding the Goofy coaster, and so hard to jump off.
Re: your relationship with your kids, I can’t tell who you see as behaving narcissistically. (Maybe everyone?) But I think it’s safe that say that, in general, narcissists want other people to try to control them — want others to please, appease and make them happy — and get upset when those others give up the attempt.
December 15th, 2015 at 3:46 pm
Thanks for clarifying these things and for the input. I believe the Second Paradox seems like the pattern in which my children and I existed.
December 18th, 2015 at 8:29 am
Wow. How timely is this post Steve.
Kind of hits nail on head.
I’ve recently experienced the narsisst in my life wanting me to please him, reassure him by his neediness and acting like a child.
So I tried controlling him..unsuccessfully, leaving me angry and scared.
Now I’m backing off and I feel his resentment.
However this cold place is better than being controlled and controlling back.
Getting off that roller coaster is essential for my sanity.
However, I realise it will bring resentment from the narsisst. Can’t win!
Great post, thanks.
Ali
December 18th, 2015 at 8:43 am
Thanks, Ali. Yes, ’tis the season. Holiday stress tends to bring out the Plan A in everyone. Stay strong, sister.